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	<title>Comments on: Astrology &#8211; why it used to be resonable and why it ain&#8217;t so anymore</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mousomer.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/astrology-why-it-used-to-be-resonable-and-why-it-aint-so-anymore/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mousomer.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/astrology-why-it-used-to-be-resonable-and-why-it-aint-so-anymore/</link>
	<description>and other rantings from a philosophically literate mathematician</description>
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		<title>By: David Marjanović</title>
		<link>http://mousomer.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/astrology-why-it-used-to-be-resonable-and-why-it-aint-so-anymore/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>David Marjanović</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mousomer.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-27</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Astrologers ruled the world. Now they clatter in the back pages of second-rate magazines.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

...and those of the most widely read daily newspapers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Astrologers ruled the world. Now they clatter in the back pages of second-rate magazines.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;and those of the most widely read daily newspapers.</p>
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		<title>By: Alun</title>
		<link>http://mousomer.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/astrology-why-it-used-to-be-resonable-and-why-it-aint-so-anymore/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Alun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 10:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mousomer.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-26</guid>
		<description>As a quick response, there is a difference between the divine and a god.

I think in ancient Greece &lt;em&gt;Divine&lt;/em&gt; would best be described as perfect and incorruptible. With the exception of the planets the stars are permanent and fixed which makes them divine. This might explain why there&#039;s no concept of variable stars in ancient Greece, even though something like Algol would be visibly variable to the naked eye. Gods also have this same attribute of having incorruptible bodies, which makes them divine. Then ideas of divinity in gods feedback in some ways to planets, though in the case of Greek astrology the gods remained anthropomorphic.

What the planets had was κοσμος, or &lt;em&gt;order&lt;/em&gt;. For some Greeks justice was as much a natural force as gravity. Anaximander built a cosmology based justice being a force inherent in the universe. Many other Greeks preferred to see Justice as something given or enforced by the gods and it&#039;s not something they have complete control over if you read things like the Iliad. The divinity of the planets placed them above earthly concerns and so they acted with complete order.

That&#039;s not a complete overview and someone else could disagree quite strongly with it in places. Greek religion and ancient religion in general doesn&#039;t map very neatly onto the modern concept of religion. Additionally the concept of Astrology differs greatly over the ancient period. The end of the late antique period is closer to modern times than the protohistorical period I tend to study and attitudes change. For instance in Augustan times Astrology was considered by some people to be nonsense, but then a society which spends a lot of time abusing astrologers must also be a society where there are astrologers with power and status to abuse.

That&#039;s why I said the difference between divine planets and gods was hair-splitting. It doesn&#039;t weaken your argument that Astrology was a product of its time and needs to be evaluated in its social context rather than as a science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a quick response, there is a difference between the divine and a god.</p>
<p>I think in ancient Greece <em>Divine</em> would best be described as perfect and incorruptible. With the exception of the planets the stars are permanent and fixed which makes them divine. This might explain why there&#8217;s no concept of variable stars in ancient Greece, even though something like Algol would be visibly variable to the naked eye. Gods also have this same attribute of having incorruptible bodies, which makes them divine. Then ideas of divinity in gods feedback in some ways to planets, though in the case of Greek astrology the gods remained anthropomorphic.</p>
<p>What the planets had was κοσμος, or <em>order</em>. For some Greeks justice was as much a natural force as gravity. Anaximander built a cosmology based justice being a force inherent in the universe. Many other Greeks preferred to see Justice as something given or enforced by the gods and it&#8217;s not something they have complete control over if you read things like the Iliad. The divinity of the planets placed them above earthly concerns and so they acted with complete order.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not a complete overview and someone else could disagree quite strongly with it in places. Greek religion and ancient religion in general doesn&#8217;t map very neatly onto the modern concept of religion. Additionally the concept of Astrology differs greatly over the ancient period. The end of the late antique period is closer to modern times than the protohistorical period I tend to study and attitudes change. For instance in Augustan times Astrology was considered by some people to be nonsense, but then a society which spends a lot of time abusing astrologers must also be a society where there are astrologers with power and status to abuse.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I said the difference between divine planets and gods was hair-splitting. It doesn&#8217;t weaken your argument that Astrology was a product of its time and needs to be evaluated in its social context rather than as a science.</p>
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		<title>By: Vidi &#171; Archaeoastronomy</title>
		<link>http://mousomer.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/astrology-why-it-used-to-be-resonable-and-why-it-aint-so-anymore/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Vidi &#171; Archaeoastronomy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mousomer.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-24</guid>
		<description>[...] Astrology - why it used to be resonable and why it ain’t so anymore « Theoretical Democratix A good explanation of why an incorrect explanation is not the same as a stupid explanation. There are elements of this I don&#8217;t agree with, for example planets were divine but not gods to the ancient Greeks, but that&#8217;s hair-splitting and would need a blog post I don&#8217;t have time to write to justify it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Astrology &#8211; why it used to be resonable and why it ain’t so anymore « Theoretical Democratix A good explanation of why an incorrect explanation is not the same as a stupid explanation. There are elements of this I don&#8217;t agree with, for example planets were divine but not gods to the ancient Greeks, but that&#8217;s hair-splitting and would need a blog post I don&#8217;t have time to write to justify it. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mousomer</title>
		<link>http://mousomer.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/astrology-why-it-used-to-be-resonable-and-why-it-aint-so-anymore/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>mousomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mousomer.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Time, my dear friend. Time is our eternal nemesis.
What newspaper would that be? (You are invited to do so yourself. )
and thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time, my dear friend. Time is our eternal nemesis.<br />
What newspaper would that be? (You are invited to do so yourself. )<br />
and thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://mousomer.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/astrology-why-it-used-to-be-resonable-and-why-it-aint-so-anymore/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mousomer.wordpress.com/?p=24#comment-20</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an excellent article. (I&#039;m an addict silent reader).
Did you consider translating it into your native language and publishing it in a daily newspaper?
I&#039;m pretty sure most of your readers do not practice astrology, but this line of though can help others see it&#039;s not reasonable anymore...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an excellent article. (I&#8217;m an addict silent reader).<br />
Did you consider translating it into your native language and publishing it in a daily newspaper?<br />
I&#8217;m pretty sure most of your readers do not practice astrology, but this line of though can help others see it&#8217;s not reasonable anymore&#8230;</p>
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